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at the top of the show, we asked you why you are awake? dan, what do you have? >> a couple of tweets. i'm awake from my daily vocabulary lesson. thanks for explaining the word crater. >> i'm here to educate everyone. >> i'm up to see what tie you chose today. come on, bill, you can do better. >> i know. i chickened out. i had one, it was a little more risque, tomorrow i'll go bold. all right? that's a promise. "morning joe," everyone. great show, everyone, by the way. "morning joe" starts right now. . ♪ good morning, 6:00 in the

morning here in new york city. it is tuesday, march 26th. with us onset, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. former communications director for president george w. bush, former senior adviser for the 2008 mccain presidential campaign, nicole wallace and former senior campaign strategist for that same 2008 campaign. now an msnbc political analyst steve schmidt and combat veteran of the united states army captain wes moore. it's a decidedly game changy feel at this table. >> haleprin's not even here. >> he'll be in game change 2020, i predict. the big news of the day, of course, is that mike barnicle's wearing a tie. it's a tie with watermelons on it. >> thank you. >> what's the occasion? >> the occasion is a phone call from my wife last night who told me to stop dressing like someone waiting for a bus to an assisted living facility. wear a tie, tuck in your shirt and act your age.

>> she wins the day again. >> yes, she did. >> by the way, i wanted to say that this morning. >> i did not -- yesterday. in one of the news reports -- >> kathleen parker wrote a wonderful op-ed yesterday. >> yeah. >> that i confessed to not having read ahead of time and it was in the script. it snuck up on me on the prompter and i said something that doesn't represent -- >> what you said was deuce machine. >> it wasn't that bad, but it was close. >> and i didn't want to embarrass him. >> i'm stunned you didn't humiliate me. >> we don't do that on this show? >> i chose not to at that moment in time because i was going to say was andrew clay in that movie? >> it was almost as bad as deuce machine. so today we'll talk about about deus -- we also have a lot to talk about. this is a big day at the supreme court. a big week at the supreme court begins today. set to hear arguments this morning on proposition 8, the law banning same-sex marriage in

california. it's anyone's guess which way the justices will rule. but they have a long list of options as they hear the arguments. first, prop 8 could be upheld leaving gay couples without the right to marry in california and leaving other state's laws untouched. things, though, more complicated if prop 8 is struck down. a broad ruling would allow same-sex marriage in california and also apply to similar state laws across the country. a middle of the road option known as a nine-state solution would apply to states that allow only civil unions. it would not affect marriage bans in other states and a narrow ruling would allow gay marriage in california only. but the justices if you follow me here could also decide that sponsors of prop 8 don't have the proper standing to represent california in the case. that potentially could allow a lower court decision declaring prop 8 unconstitutional to remain in place. recent pew poll shows a reversal on the topic of same-sex marriage mostly because of younger americans. in 2003, americans overwhelmingly opposed same-sex

marriage. the margin there 58%, 33%. flash forward ten years or so, and now more americans support it at 49%, 48%. younger americans have shown a 19% support in the last decade. several high-profile politicians have changed or reversed their positions on gay marriage. the latest democratic senator mark warner of virginia who says his views have evolved. that echoes language used by president obama when he changed his position. warner joins former secretary of state hillary clinton, senator rob portman and claire mccaskill who have all made similar announcements just this month. steve, i'll start with you. you've had a lot of experience in the state of california. as you watch this play out this week and we hear about the case in june, how do you see it playing out? >> one of the things this issue has progressed so rapidly in the country as a whole. if we had a ballot initiative in california again like we had in 2008, i have no doubt in my mind in a presidential election year

it would pass and gay marriage would be legal. the issue is moving so quickly. see that this week with so many democratic senators coming out. and i think california like other places in the country people's opinions on this issue have just changed at a lightning pace. >> wes moore, where are we on this issue now? >> well, i think we're seeing things change at a lightning pace and a much more strategic approach as to how exactly we can sway public opinion. because the fact is, the court is not going to make this decision in a bubble. and that is something that is going to be despite making this on completely legal basis, this is in the back of their mind seeing where the country's going. it reminds me of -- i was speaking to a friend of mine, he was at harvard law school how there was -- and this was back in the 1960s, but in harvard law school in the 1960s, he used to have a teacher that had call on women tuesdays where basically the teacher would only call on women in class on tuesdays. and he said he remembers

thinking about it now and how much things have changed since that point, since call on women tuesdays at harvard law school. and he says, you know, the thing that gets me most about it wasn't the fact this teacher, this guy would simply call on women tuesdays, because felt tuesdays was the only day they could contribute to the conversation. he says the thing that gets me most is we all said nothing and allowed him to do it. and this type of tide is something that supreme court cannot ignore. the fact that you're watching this happen state by state, jurisdiction by jurisdiction and public opinion change so swiftly on this that i think we're going to see some very interesting, i think, probably rapid movements that will align the legal precedents around this, as well. >> steve mentioned senator mark warner of virginia announcing his change on this yesterday or couple of days ago. how does the republican party navigate the waters that wes just alluded to? >> look, there were a lot of alarming things that happened at

cpac. the one happy thing was that they went around trying to find young conservatives who were against gay marriage and they couldn't find any. i mean, even the youngest, most devoted conservatives see this as an equal rights issue. >> as well as an inevitability. >> it's less about that when i think you're a young activist. you believe you can change the world. these young activists -- we're going to be saved by the generation coming out behind us on a lot of fronts. because they just don't see the world in this divided way that all of our politics have become hardened. the other thing is, evangelicals now, a majority of evangelical christians younger than 33 support marriage equality. so there is no more fracture in this country along the typical partisan divides. now, i think as a republican party, tolerance in both directions is important. we as a party have to understand

there are people with different opinions on this and certainly hope for them to continue to evolve. but i think that you can even stage a debate on this issue if you want to have two people on the stage in their 30s. just not in disagreement about marriage equality. >> part of the question, steve, is it the role and will it be the role of the supreme court to push this along? or do you let it happen organically? do you let it happen politically state by state? >> it's going to be an interesting question, interesting to watch it fold out. but when you talk about civil rights issues, there's always that strain that says, wait, this will happen, this will unfold on its own time. but it seems to me we've reached the tipping point on the issue. the supreme court now has the ball on this. and i think the supreme court and the chief justice are going to recognize that the historical importance of this moment of this decision, which bring equality to so many millions of americans. and i think increasingly, the country will demand and republicans will demand that

gays and lesbians be treated equally in this country. and they have the same rights and franchises everybody else does. >> you know, wes, what's going to be kind of interesting is to watch or listen in regard to law school professor in 1960s, only call on women on tuesdays. the language of justice scalia today to see how he reacts in discussing this case with lawyers because he has been ridiculously off course and a couple of times rhetorically in this case. >> and i think what's interesting too, you'll see a lot of parallels and you can draw a lot of parallels from two things. one is the civil rights argument, which i think is an important argument, analogy in this. but then also the military and the release of the don't ask, don't tell policy. because part of the challenge that was being made for around the -- by the end of don't ask, don't tell was how was this going to affect efficiency,

military readiness? and i think every independent report that's come out, not only what's happened thus far, but beforehand says this is not going to impact readiness at all. anything that happens within terms of military operations. . all the arguments against it continue to be whittled away. and on the civil rights piece and why it's so important to make that connection, that attachment, part of the reason it was shot down before was because of things like the black church who came out and said, listen, we are -- we understand civil rights, but this is a step too far. if you look at states that have pulled this off. whether it be new york or maryland. they've done a very targeted effort on things like the black church, minority groups because they're saying this is a civil rights issue, as well. >> ted olson and david boise getting together on this. their argument here, they say proponents of proposition 8 have never identified a single harm that they or anyone else would

suffer as a result of allowing gay men and lesbians to marry. that's the argument from boise. and olson, those arguments started about 10:15 this morning. dominating the opinion pages this morning. a sampling of the "new york times." deciding not to decide gay marriage, quote, history suggests it would be unwise for the supreme court to impose a uniform solution on the nation now. doing so could touch off huge civil resistance in the most conservative states. prudence and law dictate the same result cold feet at the altar. "new york times" editorial, the board writing a 50-state ruling. the courts call for states to end racial discrimination in public schools with all deliberate speed was a big error. the court should avoid that kind of error in the same-sex marriage cases. under the constitution, the right to marry applies equally to all couples period and this principle applies to the federal government and to every state. over at the "washington post" writing liberty and justice for all. now it seems not only possible,

but also likely that same-sex marriage will be legal, widespread and frankly mundane and this will happen relatively soon. the supreme court must play a part in the civil rights triumph and justices should not shrink from it. eugene robinson writing, if today's court cared about being on the right side of history, it would rule that if a couple is considered married in massachusetts or maryland they must be considered married in montana and mississippi too. this isn't that kind of court, i'm afraid, writes gene robinson. a lot of opinions and discussion today as the arguments get underway. there is some news overseas where the united states military is formally transferring a majority of prisons being held in bagram prison to the afghan government. hamid karzai praised the handover as a positive step during his meeting with john kerry. nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell is traveling with secretary kerry. >> all right. >> reporter: john kerry's trip

to afghanistan was all about damage control. defusing tensions with the country's erratic president hamid karzai. two weeks ago, karzai infuriated the president and congress suggesting that the u.s. had colec colluded with the taliban on car bomb attacks. he said he was misunderstood. >> do you standby your statement, your recent statement that the united states is conspireing with the taliban on recent terror attacks? >> i never used the word collusion between the taliban and the u.s. and those were not my words, those were words picked up by the media. >> we're on the same page, i don't think there's any disagreement between us and i'm very, very comfortable with the president's explanation. >> it wasn't kerry's first mission to deal with a karzai problem. as a senator in 2009, he spent four days persuading karzai to hold a runoff election after vote fraud. just before kerry landed, the u.s. turned over control of the

prison at bagram air base. kerry's kid glove treatment of karzai is in sharp contrast to kerry's visit to iraq where he confronted prime minister maliki for helping iran rearm the assad regime in syria. kerry has been on a diplomatic marathon. israel, jordan, iraq, back to jordan for a secret dinner with pakistan's powerful army chief of staff. >> we'll talk about hamid karzai in that minute. but what's the significance of that transfer to the afghan government? >> it's significant and for a couple different reasons. one is that it shows the acceleration of the redeployment of troops is going to happen quickly because a lot of troops were actually there to maintain a lot of the prison facilities, the bases at bagram, the most built out facilities that we have inside of afghanistan. it shows a level of seriousness about how fast this redeployment is going to happen. it really tries to establish a sense of nationalistic identity

within afghanistan. because part of the challenge of president karzai ever since he's been the president there is that he's been not much more than the mayor of kabul. his fear and influence has not stretched out into particularly the rural areas where you have heavy influences of taliban and other type of, you know, resistance. the united states is saying this is what you asked for, what you want. therefore, we're placing the ball into your hands and seeing what you can do with it. what i find interesting, you talk about president karzai. the only thing i find more striking about president karzai, no the even his comments is how many times he's misunderstood about comments he's made. >> you know what is amazing to me is the lack of ability on our part, on this country's part, on our leadership's part to frame this up in terms of history. through no fault of secretary kerry's, that could have been

secretary john kerry in a reincarnation talking to president zm in south vietnam in 1970. the same language, the same tactics, the same objective. you know, this is your country, we're trying to hand it over to you, trying to get out and we don't know how to get out. >> it would have been good if some of our policy makers over the last decade about afghanistan. look, he is an unreliable partner, erratic doesn't again to describe it. it's time for the united states to come home from afghanistan. we will be in an asymmetrical war against terrorists, al qaeda, affiliates, as that organization grows. the notion after year 12, 13, 14, 15, going forward, we're going to be able to impose a westernized liberalized decent democracy on this country is fantastical. it will never happen.

our military has served valiantly, fantastically, they have done everything that has been asked of them or more. but now it is time for the policy leaders in this country to begin to bring our troops home from this mission, which has no definition. we have no reliable partner, and we have an inability to shape this country to the decent outcome that we had all hoped for earlier in this decade. >> year 12. >> i think what's most striking is the continuity between the obama administration's approach to afghanistan and the bush administration's approach to afghanistan. this is a country with bad options and worse options. while karzai's been an unreliable partner, he's been the best of options. there's been no fast changes, this doesn't speak to any weaknesses in american foreign policy, it speaks to the difficulty of the country and speaks to a place where we didn't have a lot of good options. so i think there's something reassuring about the fact that

two presidents from, you know, very different political persuasions basically adhered to an identical foreign policy and relied on the same unreliable partner in karzai. that could have been secretary rice, secretary clinton, it was secretary kerry in this case. but the goals have remained american goals and that was to make this place better than the evil horrible place it was when 9/11 was planned. it's fine to say 12-year war and it's terrible never should have been there, but i'm not sure we had any good choices. and affirmed by the fact that two presidents of different political persuasions did the exact same thing. >> if afghanistan were sandwiched in between brazil and argentina, nobody would care. it's the region that finds itself in. the fact that the neighbors are iran and pakistan is why. >> and the attacks of 9/11 were planned. so we saw the consequences of leaving it to the taliban and al

qaeda. >> they should have taken the entire state department, both administrations. the bush administration, the obama administration to see the man who would be king with sean connery and michael -- yeah. >> jake tapper's book, which is great. i'm reading it now, and frankly these soldiers who end up in these far out outposts in the country come back as greater students of -- >> yeah. >> the history of the country than a lot of our policy makers and members of congress. >> great outposts. coming up on "morning joe," walter isaacson will be with us and elijah cummings and paul rieckhoff. and california's attorney general kamala harris will be inside the supreme court today when the justices hear the case over california's ban on same-sex marriage. coming up next, mike allen has a first look at the politico playbook. before all that, bill karins has

a look at the forecast. >> good job. you haven't screwed up anything. bill karins, what do you got? >> good morning, guys. i could sit here and tell you about the cold and the snow, but instead my glass is half full. we've hit the bottom. i think we're going up from here. we've seen the worst and spring is now right around the corner. of course, this is the worst. it's going to get better. we still deal with snow out there this morning. we're traveling, the one travel spot the roads could be a little bit slippery with the snow is southern ohio, eastern portions of kentucky, western portions of west virginia. that white on the map, by the way, snow showers overnight in northern alabama, mississippi, and northern georgia. how rare is that for this time of year? here we are. this is where the snow is. the areas colored in in blue is where we have snow on the ground still. almost 50% of the country still has snow on the ground. we are just going to eliminate this snow from here on out. i do not see any more snowstorms coming your way. it's still cold, still chilly, this will probably be the coldest morning, most likely the

coldest morning we will see throughout the southern half of the country until possibly november and december. in other words, if you can get through this morning, we're just about done. and look at these windchills, down in the 20s from dallas to atlanta. that's very cold in the northern plains. not exactly toasty in new england either. the good thing about march, if we don't have storms around and you get sunshine, you can warm the temperatures up. so after a cold start, a slow recovery, not spring break weather in spots, but it is nicer especially in areas of florida and louisiana. so as we go throughout this week, things improve from here. a lot warmer than it is out there this morning. washington, d.c., we've already melted your snow from yesterday morning. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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joe," 6:24 here in new york. let's take a look at some of the morning papers. the "new york times," a 17-year-old computer wiz from great britain sold a news app to yahoo for a reported $30 million. >> why didn't i think of that? >> he's 17. >> explain what it does. >> it summarizes news articles. the program called sumly. >> i did that -- >> i can do it right now. >> the app is called sumly, condenses long form news stories in easy to read articles. i met this kid a few months ago, and you look at him, he looks like he's about 14 years old. >> was it a brief meeting? >> that was his idea -- >> that was my job the first ten campaigns i worked on. >> right. >> why didn't i think of that? >> $30 million? did you get $30 million for it? >> not really. >> soon the american people will no longer be able to read anything longer than a sentence

and a half. >> you've been doing it with your kids for years. >> it does it instantly, though. >> or the politicians you work for. >> i sense some bitterness over the 17-year-old. washington post, michele bachmann is being investigated for alleged campaign finance investigations during her run last year for the nomination. former staffers say officials are looking into allegations of under the table payments and the improper transfer of funds. former president bill clinton throwing his support behind wendy gruelle. served as the co-chair of barack obama's california campaign. the race will be decided in l.a. on may 21st. the portland oregonians. core math skills are determined as early as first grade and stick with individuals throughout their lifetime. the study says building a strong

number system knowledge early on is the key to success. about 1 in 5 adults in the u.s. lack the math competence of a child in middle school and i am one of them. >> put me in that category. >> me too. >> the new jersey star ledger, the identity of the newest power ball jackpot winner no longer a mystery. 44-year-old pedro came forward yesterday to claim his $338 million prize. $338 million to one man. he's a father of five, owns a bodega near the liquor store where he bought his ticket. he told reporters his first priority will be to help his family. good for him. >> march madness is alive and well at the ft. myers campus of florida gulf coast university which is right down from a great -- >> again. >> the sweet sixteen bound basketball team returned to campus yesterday and received a hero's welcome from the student body. the campus bookstore has run out

of shirts and sales of team apparel are up 1,000% from last year. >> it's amazing. the point guard was talking yesterday walked into the cafeterias they do every day and they had to get a police escort to get their trays and get to the lunch line. it's an awesome story. >> i want a jersey. >> you want a jersey? we'll get you a jersey. or something from the outlets. >> it's two lights down from the school. great outlet mall. >> we're getting something good then. >> yeah. >> and at a nice price. that's really -- that's key the whole thing. >> savings. >> it is. >> with us now the chief white house correspondent for politico with a look at the playbook. mike, good morning. >> good morning, guys. and if yahoo's listening, i want to let them know the playbook app is still available. >> yes, and no one condenses a story better than the "playbook," let's be clear about that.

>> exactly. >> mike, let's talk a little business here on gun control. and the coming weeks, president obama expected to shift his focus back to the debate on guns. the white house announced the president will hit the road again looking to shore up support from fellow democrats on some of the more controversial aspects of the senate's gun legislation, including a ban on assault weapons which would be an amendment. the political group organizing for action, which began as an effort to get the president reelected is also getting involved in that debate. the group will hold more than 100 events this thursday supporting efforts to reduce violence. the national rifle association is facing heat for a series of row bow calls being made to connecticut residents, including those in newtown looking to rally support against the state's effort for stricter gun legislation. >> this week, despite an outcry of public opposition, anti-gun legislators are aggressively pursuing numerous proposals designed to disarm and punish law-abiding gun owners and

sports men. these bills would ban firearms and impose a gun rationing scheme and mandate gun registration. >> senators richard blumenthal and chris murphy were critical of the ads. we call on you to immediately stop calling the families and friends of the victims of newtown. in the senate, republicans rand paul and ted cruz are threatening to filibuster harry reid's debate on gun control legislation when the senate returns from easter recess. the debate will include votes on universal background checks and a separate push to ban assault weapons. so with all that in mind, mike, there's word the issue of gun legislation could inspire another filibuster even as president obama hits the road to promote change. >> no, that's right. "politico's" john allen got a letter on what the conservatives are going to deliver today. it's ted cruz of texas and mike

lee of utah. they saw that the stand with rand filibuster covered the drone issue was so effective it not only gummed up the senate but also got huge street cred for rand paul among conservatives that they are going to try it again. and what they're trying to disarm here, what they're trying to defuse here is an effort to add amendments to this to tighten up the restrictions. so as you said in your set-up, the bill they're going to take up when they come back two weeks from now is going to be mostly about universal background checks and trafficking prevention. but they figured there are some amendments that are going to be added on also by senator reid bringing up these amendments, including limits on clip size, a ban on some types of assault weapons. that not only gives people the chance to vote for it who want to, but also gives cover for

conservative democrats. gives them part of the bill they can vote against. that's why these conservatives are trying to gum up that series of votes. >> steve schmidt, how much more can the president do to appealing to the american public. dianne feinstein learned last week that an assaults weapons ban is unlikely. it'll be put forth as an amendment so democrats can vote on it, but it's not going to pass. what can the president do? how much more can he advance this debate beyond where we are? >> not very much by campaigning outside because the dynamics in the senate are totally enochulated, support common sense legislation, changes, background checks, but the power of the gun lobby in washington, its power or perceived power in republican primaries, perceived power in swing states where there's a gun culture is such that public opinion broadly just doesn't matter.

>> so where does this end up? >> i've never quoted rand paul before, but here goes nothing. he said on sunday that the legislatures in this country state and in washington are about ten years behind the public. i think that's absolutely right. i think the public and gun owners and particularly law-abiding gun owners welcome anything that sort of separates out good and dutiful and gun owners who haven't for the right reasons and doing the right things from people who don't. i think this debate in washington is very disconnected from even the opinions of gun owners when it comes to things like background checks and things that are reasonable. >> and this is also where i think the idea of the filibuster becomes very much an overreach. because there's also a difference between the stand with rand issue and the drone issue and this issue. the fact that the drone issue had this very fascinating

interesting confluence where you had people on the left and the right calling into question the legality of the drone issue. that's not the case with this debate. this is very much a very stark partisan debate being had on gun issues and whether or not everything from background checks to assault weapons to high caliber machines to gun trafficking to all these other laws that are being -- amendments being proposed. that's going to be the difference between how a filibuster will be perceived on that issue versus on this one. >> finally, mike, i've got to ask you about something, a playbook exclusive. d.c. getting some big love from sports illustrated in the baseball preview issue. wes moore giving a thumbs down. >> yeah, if we can please have mr. barnicle's attention back from spring training. we have a first look from "morning joe" "sports illustrated" will be out tomorrow with the pick for the world series the washington nationals defeating the tampa bay rays, the mid-atlantic cover will be steven strasburg our

pitcher as mr. october. >> you know, that's not a bad match-up in the fall. >> yeah? >> the nationals versus the rays. the blue jays are good too, but you've got to play 162 games, i would say in the national league, the odds on favorite. that's a very good team they've got going down there. it's unfortunate that 90% of their fans have no idea what's taking place in the field because they just started showing up about two years ago. >> wes is an orioles fan. they'll be tough this year. >> every year everyone says they're going to be third place and we say play the games. >> not only that, not enough has been said in terms of praise for the job that they have done in baltimore in the shadow of the washington nationals, they have built an emerging contender. >> absolutely. and the yankees will be watching the world series from their assisted living facility. >> eating soft food. >> and the outlet mall. >> and going to bed at 6:00 at

night. >> shuffling around the outlet mall in ft. myers. >> derek, let's look at this thing. >> a-rod's hobbling around. oh, my gosh. i love the yankees, but man are they old. mike allen, we'll see you. >> see you soon. coming up, tiger woods regains his status as the world's number one golfer. highlights from the arnold palmer invitational and a look ahead to the masters where tiger is the heavy favorite. many cereals say they're good for your heart, but did you know there's a cereal that's recommended by doctors? it's post shredded wheat. recommended by nine out of ten doctors

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♪ for the first time in 29 months, tiger woods is ranked number one in the world today after winning the arnold palmer invitational in orlando to congratulate tiger, nike posted this on their facebook page. it says winning takes care of everything. except for that ridiculous goatee and mustache. i'm pretty sure lawyers take care of everything in tiger's case. >> welcome back to "morning joe." he had a chance to get back to the top of the golfing world with a win yesterday at the invitational. tiger took a three-stroke advantage into the final round, adds to that with a birdie on the par 5 fourth, rickey fowler

on his heels all day. keeping the pressure on. tiger, though, would not be denied. he's going to drain this 25-footer for birdie, stays three strokes ahead of fowler. on the final hole, victory in hand, tiger caps things off with a 75-foot putt for par that looks good. he likes it. comes up just -- pushes it a little bit right. tiger still gets the win, finishes at 13 under for the tournament. he's back now officially number one in the world for the first time since 2010 after the win, tiger's sounding optimistic about staying on top as he heads into the masters in a couple of weeks. >> if i get healthy, i can play this game at a high level. i can be where i'm contending in every event, contending in major championships and being consistent day in and day out if i got healthy. and that was a first step in the process. once i got there, then my game turned.

>> tiger's new girlfriend, by the way, skiing superstar vonn tweeting afterward tweeting simply number 1 with about 27 exclamation points. he fell as far as 58th in the world rankings a couple of years ago. people thought his best years were behind him. he's playing three wins this year already. he's playing as well as he's ever played. >> if he can putt, he can win. that's been his big liability. >> big favorite into the masters. to the nba another domination story, the heat drawing ever closer to the '72 lakers record of 33 straight wins. the heat went for number 27 against the magic and they're playing without dwyane wade. third quarter tied at 68, lebron goes to the rack for the flush, gives the heat the lead, fourth quarter now heat pulling away. this is just mean. cole to lebron for the alley-oop. winning the 27th straight game. 108-94, go on the road to face the bulls tomorrow night, toughest test sunday night in san antonio.

that's going to be a tough place to keep the streak alive. >> what's harder to do? win an nba championship or win 33 or 34 straight games? >> win an nba championship. >> you think so? >> i don't know. >> because you play a lot of garbage -- you play a lot of lottery teams. >> i disagree. >> okay. agree to disagree. >> get a little rest, i don't know. >> this is like -- >> good guy. good guy. finally, i don't know why i brought that up. at the top of the show. i opened myself up to all of this. finally, president obama's bracket looked like it was going to be in trouble. but whose wasn't really? after the round of 64, hovering around the 30th percentile, but the presidential rebound heading into the sweet sixteen, he's got 11 of 16, he didn't pick wichita state, nobody did, florida gulf coast, nobody did, oregon, or

arizona. he's right around the 70th percentile and got all his final four teams remaining. coming up next, the must read opinion pages, "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ lorenzo ] i'm lorenzo. i work for 47 different companies. well, technically i work for one. that company, the united states postal service®

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that's a live look at the united states capitol as the sun comes up at 6:47 in the morning. beautiful picture. busy day in washington. the supreme court, let's do some must-read opinion pages. we'll start with david brooks writing in the "new york times" about the killing chain. he writes the national debate has focused on just one link in the killing chain, the acquisition of the gun. now i understand why the gun has taken center stage, the gun is

the shocking fact at the moment of murder. many americans are material determinists in any moral question or frightening conflict, a lot of people uncomfortable with the human element and like to fixate on the material factor, but the sad fact is that gun acquisition is probably the link on the killing chain least amenable to influence. we live in a country that already has something like 250 million guns floating around. it's hard retro actively to get a grip on them. >> what's interesting about the brooks piece is that he writes about all the elements of driving the crime rate down have been addressed in so many majorities with the exception of gun acquisition. something you said strikes me, taking place in the house and senate might overwhelmingly approve of universal registration. and they're above public opinion. >> i do think to his piece, though, that one element we don't talk about enough in this. i thought governor christie was

really impressive on it. when he talked about, we have a violence problem in this country that goes deeper than the guns and there should be common sense regulations put around guns as there always has been. but there's something deeper and we don't talk about that as much. i think it's easier for the president to give a speech talking about guns. i'd like to see him go out to hollywood and talk about the culture of almost violent pornography that's in the culture. and there's just room to talk about these things. this evil act in newtown. we describe it as mental illness and ascribe it to the gun laws but it's evil. we don't talk about it as much as we should, it seems to me. >> probably going on 30 years, maybe more, the late great daniel patrick moynihan, definidefine

ing doo ing. the massacre in the 1970s, 17 people killed. you're no longer shocked when 15 people are killed in a sears -- >> in a mall shooting. it's breaking news for ten minutes, doesn't make the news that night. >> not just pornography, but language in this culture. subways and grocery stores. you're no longer shocked at so many things that used to be shocking. we live in a country where there's absolutely nothing that a family can do for a mentally ill family member until and unless they commit a violent crime. >> yeah. >> there's no one to call, there's nothing to do, there's no one to help you until and unless you call the police and have them take them away because they've already committed a crime. you can't even call the police because you think they might commit a crime. they have to have already become violent to themselves or somebody else and it's almost always a crime or violence taken

out on someone else in the family. we live in a country where until we have that conversation, until there's maybe one thing that a family with a mentally ill person in their nest in their midst can do, it doesn't matter what you do to the guns, to the movies, because there are people in our population who are too fragile to have guns, too fragile to consume violent television and what not. until we have that conversation, the problem won't go away. >> that's one thing we've all agreed on since newtown is that mental illness is something. we need to take a look at part of a bigger picture. if pilots use ipads in the cockpits, why can't passengers play words with friends on the tarmac? well, the faa is considering big changes when it comes to electronic devices on flights. we're going to have details on that as you get ready to fly this morning as "morning joe" comes right back.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe," nicole wallace is with us, and joining us at the table mark haleprin and president and ceo of the aspen institute, our old pal walter isaacson. want to get to the news? >> news it up. >> it's a big day. supreme court, supreme court is set to hear arguments this morning on proposition 8, the controversial law banning same-sex marriage in california. joining us now from outside the supreme court, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. can you take us through what

we're going to expect to see and perhaps hear today in this landmark case? >> we will hear the lawyer for proposition 8 address the court first. remember, prop 8 was struck down by two lower courts. they're the ones that have appealed it to the supreme court. defending the law, they agreed with the people suing here that it's unconstitutional. and they will tell the court that it makes sense to make a distinction between same sex and opposite sex couples because only opposite sex couples can produce children and it's in the state's interest to treat them differently. you'll hear from the lawyer in both the united states and the two couples in the if first place say it makes no sense to distinguish the two because allowing same-sex couples to get married would not in any way affect the marriages of opposite sex couples or in any way diminish the quality of traditional marriage. those are the three lawyers we'll hear from today, mike. >> peter, how long is this going to take this morning? how long are the arguments going

to be established? it's the only case to be argued today, so undoubtedly justice roberts will allow the lawyers to take a little bit extra time. this will probably start around i would guess around 10:15, 10:20. there are lawyers to be admitted, the usual routine at the beginning of the supreme court day. the whole thing will probably be done by around i would guess 11:30 or so. >> pete williams on the steps of the supreme court. thank you, pete, we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> talk about that, walter, the tide of public opinion, how quickly this has changed in this country. >> i don't think you've ever seen it change like this the tide of american history for 350 years has been more and more inclusiveness to bend the arc of history as dr. king said towards justice inclusiveness, equality.

and it usually takes a while. this one, four, five years ago, you're still having the bill clintons and everybody else being against gay marriage. now almost as if to get out ahead of the supreme court argument, you're seeing more and more people say, hey, wait a minute, there's no reason to make this distinction. i think when ted olson and david boise took it thought maybe we can win on standing, somewhat of a technicality in california. now they may win in a sort of brown v. board of education way. it's going to split 5-4 or whether you'll have a justice like roberts or some other on the more conservative side say wait a minute, i know which way history is going. i'm not sure i want my wikipedia entry or obituary to have a second paragraph, he was on the wrong side of history. >> do you think justice scalia is thinking that? >> i think he's one of the less

likely of the justices. certainly kennedy and roberts. the real question to me is roberts. roberts obviously realizes he's the chief justice and has got to play to history. look at brown versus board of education. none wanted to be the one standing in front of that train. we all know which way the movement is going. it's going to look silly 20 years from now. i suspect they could find a way such as saying there's no standing among the people who are bringing this case because they're not harmed. that's a very narrow way you could decide this case without being on the wrong side of history. just say the people bringing this case aren't really being harmed therefore they don't have a right to bring this case. >> how significant is it, mark, in the larger scheme of things politically that you get senator mark warner, virginia, senator claire mccaskill, missouri, basically saying, you know, let's just do the sensible thing

here. >> well, you're going to see more and more senators and other public officials in both parties do it. one of the signs of strength that walter talked about is the gay rights movement can survive an adverse decision in the supreme court. they will not stop the momentum. there is a chance as much as a 7-2 decision, at least 6-3, maybe they'll win 5-4. i don't -- there's some talk of justice ginsburg, perhaps, people looking at her comments on roe versus wade. i don't think that's true. i think there's four solid votes. and you've got a situation now where if you look at tea leaves, more than tea leaves both justice roberts and kennedy have a history of supporting gay rights. and there's no doubt that whether they're obsessed with wikipedia or not, they have a sense of the history of the moment. and i think politically you've never seen such clarity. the key -- i'll say one last thing. the majority opinion, assuming they come down on the pro gay rights side in one way or

another takes into account the tens of millions of americans who don't believe in this and try to figure out away to craft this in a way that makes the country more united on a tough issue rather than less divided which is what roe did. >> before we get to the various options that might be available to the court today, it might come as no surprise to you and certainly no surprise to walter that i am not up to speed on internal feeling and sentiment among the cpac people. nicole not only is but itemized it and talked about it a few moments ago. and stunning stat that she had. i forget -- >> right. well cpac took place on the same day that republican senator portman came out in support of gay marriage. and so many journalists were there looking for the opinion there. and i saw about a dozen young conservative activists. and these are the most conservative of conservatives. they couldn't find a young person who wasn't in support of marriage equality. that's to me a very hopeful

sign. and there was a pretty thorough, i thought, hunt to get the opinion of the young people. and they were all for marriage equality. evangelical self-described evangelical christians under the age of 33 support marriage equality, i think at 64%. so if you're 33 or younger and you describe yourself as a christian evangelical, you are a majority of them support marriage equality. i think the other reason that like you said, the movement could stand success or failure before the support is they've used today's arguments as an opportunity to lay out a very conservative rationale for marriage equality. because of the arguments he's made, he's brought a lot of conservatives with him, there are 130 republicans who signed

on to a friend of the court brief. who lays out this conservative rationale. if you believe it is the building block of communities in neighborhoods and society, then you want every child in a household with two parents who love each other to be able to say my parents are married. it doesn't matter if they're a same-sex couple or whether they're a man and woman, you should want every family to be wrapped up in that revered institution of marriage if they so choose. >> in retrospect, it is interesting with david boise and ted olson stood up in california and began the fight against proposition 8 that it was such an accelerant looking in the rearview mirror now, it really did speed public awareness up and public acceptance, i think. >> yeah, i mean, you have to remember back then i think, you know, large segment of the republican party strategist,

people including carl rove were putting gay marriage on ballots as a way to bring out, you know, conservative votes and win and suddenly it tips. i think it's partly because of that case. i think it's just partly there's just a national swing. and you've seen it happen on all sorts of -- smoking is an issue, obesity might be one. people's attitudes suddenly change. but i think this one, it's a pretty clear historic change. >> well, we don't know how justices haleprin and isaacson will vote on this issue. we do know it's anyone's guess. but they have a long list of options. first, proposition 8 could be upheld. leaving gay couples without the right to marry in california and leaving other state laws untouched. but things are more complicated if proposition 8 is struck down. a broad ruling would allow same-sex marriage in california and would also apply to similar state laws across the country. a middle of the road option known as a nine-state solution

would apply to states that only allow civil unions. would not affect marriage bans in other states and a narrow ruling would allow gay marriage in california. but the justices could also decide that sponsors of proposition 8 don't have the proper standing to represent california in the case that could potentially allow a lower court decision declaring prop 8 unconstitutional to remain in place. another issue that's always with us, for years been with us is immigration and president obama's pressing congress to, quote, finish the job when it comes to comprehensive immigration reform. the president hosted a naturalization ceremony for 28 new citizens at the white house. the president who acknowledged the need for undocumented workers to pay penalties and taxes also used the moment to make the case for a culture that embraces immigrants saying the country's economic future is at stake.

>> immigration makes us stronger. keeps us vibrant, keeps us hungry, prosperous. it is part of what makes this such a dynamic country. we've known for years our immigration system is broken. and we're not doing enough to harness the talent and individuality of those who want to find a place here in america. and the time has come to fix it once and for all. >> a bipartisan group of eight senators hopes to have a plan drawn up by shortly after easter. ted cruise cast doubt on the negotiations. in an interview with the dallas morning news, cruz said he believes the president wants the immigration reform effort to quote crater so that democrats can hammer republicans on the immigration issue in the 2014 midterm elections. cruz pointed to the controversial pathway to citizenship which he said will ultimately kill the bill. the white house responded saying flatly there's no evidence to support the senator's claims. where are we with ted cruz,

immigration and the republicans on the immigration? >> i have great respect for senator cruz, but i think he's totally wrong about that analysis. >> why do you have great respect for him? >> he's a smart man. worked hard to get a senate seat. >> okay. >> and i think lost his way a little bit in his public image on some issues. the president has a pretty clear short checklist he wants to get done. now is the time to do it and i think you've seen a white house that has an underrated way, even on the budget deficit but certainly on immigration and even on gun control has worked very -- in a very sophisticated way to use public opinion but also get congress invested in this, not interfere. the president has held back on a public posture of immigration of letting the senate negotiators do their work and i think senator cruz is wrong about what the president wants. he wants a bill and he'll get one. >> within the white house, what do you think if they had an option on the table and said you can have immigration or guns

during april, pick one. >> they want them both. one on the faster track. >> which is on the faster track? >> i think immigration is. almost no doubt in my mind, they would be forced to vote on it and it would pass even if boehner had to waive the majority rule. i'm not so sure about guns. i think it's possible that a senate package on guns would simply not receive a vote in the house. >> can you give me a sense -- a sense of where the republican house might be? >> i think marco rubio's more important to watch than senator cruz, with all due respect. i think that watching president obama do a naturalization ceremony was like watching george w. bush. he did a lot of those too in 2005 when he was pushing comprehensive immigration reform, which looks a whole lot like what the obama white house is pushing. but i think it's important and it's a good sign for the white

house that senator rubio is still at the table. and i think it's important to -- that they've so far seemed to recognize the importance of keeping people like him at the table. and i think that will affect the outcome and whether or not they're successful. they can keep him and keep that fragile coalition together. >> it's always interesting when immigration bills are being discussed and have been discu discussed ad nauseam. i'm sort of familiar with it. you've seen decades of young people from other people from other lands come and go to great schools here, stanford, harvard, upenn and duke and take the knowledge they've acquired here and forced to go back to their country rather than stay here and develop new products, new businesses. it's incredible. >> totally wacky. we should staple an immigration to any degree. but you can't do that unless you do comprehensive reform.

as the president said rightly, you can't do that and not have the dream act. you've got to do it so anybody who can contribute to this country. also one of these historic changes. the reason i think it's different than guns, i think this is something in which you could truly have a bipartisan thing, they could work together on it. that could help change the tone in washington. you're right. i senator rubio has been, you know, very forefront on this. what's interesting to watch jeb bush. and i read an interview he gave on the back page of the current bloomberg business week in which he tried to defend the fact he'd written a book before the election. it sort of denigrated a path to citizenship and trying to come out and say, wait a minute, let's not make this path to citizenship a road block. that's a pretty aspirational thing. people who want to become citizens of this country and who willing to work and compete to do so. >> why is he doing that, nicole? >> well, i think that as a party we've come a long way.

when it was rolled out in '05, it was squashed and killed by republicans. now you have jeb bush, the more conservative position is not a pathway to citizenship but legal status and on the other side is the rubio position, which pathway to citizenship. >> is there some tension now? >> i don't believe there is. my understanding is their relationship is as warm as it always was and they came down and slightly different place. i think that marco rubio represents more current thinking in that he's participating in these deliberations with the white house. >> can you stay with us for another segment? we're begging you. >> sure, as long as i get some coffee. >> one more cup of coffee for mr. isaacson, please. coming up, it's hard to believe, but trafficking firearms is not already a federal crime. elijah cummings is working to change that. but does gun safety legislation go far enough? we'll talk about the fight over background checks and an assault weapons ban when the maryland

democrat joins us next. but first, this is a contractual obligation on our part. we have to go with bill karins for a check on his realforecast. >> warm it up. >> let's try it. >> good morning, everyone, the southern half of the country, the flowers are in bloom, the pollen in the air. and this morning is almost like what happens in the fall. it's like a killing freeze in some spots. it's not good for the flower buds. atlanta's at 32, dallas is at 31. the freeze line went all the way down this morning into northern louisiana and even through portions of mississippi and alabama. hopefully we didn't do too much damage out there to the beautiful buds before the beautiful spring weather arrives later on this week. the weather pattern for today, cold and dreary up to the great lakes, snow showers for many areas of kentucky, west virginia and through southern ohio. and this is how it's going to go this week. it's a slow improvement each and every day. by the time we get to easter sunday, still cool from the northern plains, great lakes

northeast. cool, not cold. more like how it should be this time of year which will feel warm compared to how chilly it's been. the southeast gets mild and dry, a few rain and thunderstorms each and every afternoon from areas of texas, you'll be in the 70s and the entire western half of the country looks very warm toward easter sunday. today's forecast, again, very chilly morning. this afternoon, there's less snow as the day progresses and it'll be getting nicer as the day goes on through the ohio valley. still cold by this time of year standards. we should be near 60 this time of year in d.c., we're at 48. we're going to slowly warm up today and tomorrow, i think by sunday there'll be a lot of smiles on a lot of people's faces as we head towards the holiday weekend. you're watching "morning joe." that's a nice shot. no snow like yesterday. we're brewed by starbucks.

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joining us now from baltimore, elijah cummings. we're happy you're here with us. baltimore, maryland, a city not unused to the problems the dilemmas, the sadness, the violence that occurs with gun trafficking. talk about the issue with regard to your city. >> well, i just left my home which is located in the inner city in baltimore. and i can tell you that in areas like where i live, they tell me the young kids tell me they can get a gun as fast as they can get a cigarette if they have the right amount of money. and basically we have a situation today where more and more people who are have been convicted of a felony and who are literally barred from having a gun are getting them through

what we call straw purchasers. in other words, they'll go to a girlfriend or friend who has no record. get them to buy the gun and background check and next thing you know, they may buy, 60, 70 guns in the matter of two or three months and then they ship them off or send them to other areas like urban areas and we've seen that over and over again. we saw a case like that in oakland where they were finding guns that were actually coming from rural georgia come to find out there was a person who was going through this straw purchasing, sending the guns to oakland in the rural area and those were being sold and distributed to gang members. by the way, we have bipartisan support in the house for this

bill over 100 co-sponsors. it says when you, a straw purchaser goes out there and does that, they're no longer going to be limited to a fine, almost like a, you know, you get -- you're speeding at 65 in a 55-mile zone. no more of that. the penalty is going to be increased substantially. and right now, there is no federal law dedicated to gun trafficking. that is that when that straw purchaser buys that gun and then turns it over to either somebody who they know should not have a gun or forbidden for having a gun or cartels in mexico or what have you, now there will be a law against not only the strawberry purchaser but the person who is receiving the gun and any kingpins that might be involved in that. again, this is something law enforcement has asked for. as you know i'm the ranking member of the government reform committee and the requests literally came from the atf agents saying they wanted

stronger straw purchasing penalties and wanted a trafficking law. >> congressman, i'm going to assume you're talking about the i-95 gun trail. people buy the guns, wholesale, further south in baltimore, come up i-95, come in baltimore, what happens if somebody comes into baltimore city with a trunk full of guns, pulled over for the headlight being out, pop the trunk, therest a trunk full of guns. what happens under federal statute right now to the person driving that car with the trunk full of guns? >> they're properly registered, they have no problem. >> wow. >> if those guns are properly -- in other words, if they were proper purchased, they have no problem. >> what does properly purchased entail? >> that is if they have gone through the background check, and they find out that this guy is not a felon and they trace the guns and discover that they were maybe even if they were bought by somebody else, as long as that person has a legal right

to have those guns and depends on what state he's coming from, he has no problem. >> congressman, as you pointed out, you've got some provisions that have the support of house republicans, but largely there, most house republicans are against what you're for. mayor bloomberg of new york city has got millions of dollars he's willing to spend, doing some on television ads. if he'd asked you what else should he spend his millions on, what would you tell him to spend it on? >> i would definitely say background checks. and also i would love for him to spend it on the assault weapons ban in the high capacity clips. >> television advertising or something else? >> oh, i'm sorry. i think he should spend it on advertising and helping some of those candidates that may be fearing the attacks of the nra by giving, bringing some balance and saying, look, i'm going to support you. like he supported the young lady in chicago. i think the nra has made it

clear they are going to fight almost anything that comes out with regard to controlling guns in any way. but i was very pleased to hear the head of the nra this weekend on your network on "meet the press" say that he was for increasing the penalties on straw purchasers. that's a good sign. that's the first time i've heard him say something like that. perhaps he and i can meet and we can join forces to get at least this piece done. i keep telling folks, this is a transformational moment. when sandy hook took place, i can't think of too much that should cause people to say, look, you know, we cannot continue to go down this road without making a difference. and without doing something different. and if we don't act now, i don't know when we're going to act. i don't know what can be too much worse than that. by the way, in the inner cities

of our nation, i mean, we're seeing this kind of gun violence not on a mass scale, but on a day-to-day scale all over. and so sandy hook showed in one particular situation 20 young children dying, being shot at close range. this kind of violence is taking place over the country. >> walter isaacson. >> that's a good point the congressman made on the same day of sandy hook when 20 kids were killed, more than 30 are killed. and he said that's the great epidemic. the -- he has binders, 189 -- 189 kids in the folders showing the boom, boom, boom of guns.

and it's something that has to be attacked at all levels. not just the gun thing, it's a violence thing, the culture thing. i think we're going to need -- and this is where bloomberg can come in. i think mayor bloomberg's doing a great job, a sea change in attitude towards violence and guns in the inner city and i think by doing his advertising campaign, he's trying to make that social transformation that we saw in gay marriage that we saw in smoking. >> he was killed at 5:00 in the morning, somebody bust in his room to rob him. shot him dead. and here's a guy with a 3.5 junior, rising junior. and to see that life -- i can tell you, i had been to many funerals of young people in my district and in my state who have been killed through gun

violence, but there's nothing like being on the side of it where you as a family member. and what i've learned is that there's a force out there right now of a whole lot of people who are experiencing this. they have relatives, they have friends, and that force, i think, will continue to march forward. as you can see, the people, the parents at sandy hook, they are committed to this to making a difference. out of the pain comes your passion to do your purpose. >> and that force is going to go against forces like the nra? >> before we let you go, i have to talk about something that occurred a while ago. the super bowl, the ravens win the super bowl. and, you know, after every super bowl they get the nfl players coming on saying, hey, i'm going to disney world or disney land or something.

but torii smith. >> he's a wonderful young man, we got a call from torrey saying he wanted to use his time wisely in the offseason. he came, he set for over the last month, he comes in for about four or five hours a day, he works on a lot of foreclosure cases because we spent a lot of time on foreclosures. he's helped with all kinds of case work. >> awesome. >> and he's been wonderful. keep in mind he went to the university of maryland in college park. so he really -- i have so much admiration for him and one of the things he said to me, congressman, i don't want any press conferences, i don't want people to know i'm here. i just want to do this because i think it's very important. and i've been so pleased to have him. >> no press conference. he's clearly not interested in politics then. >> right. >> congressman elijah cummings, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate it. ever wonder exactly how your

kindle interferes with an airplane's electronic systems? it doesn't. it may mean changes when it comes to reading devices in the cabin of planes. that's next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." 7:35 in the morning. all right, here's the story you've been waiting for. the faa is considering relaxing the rules when passengers can and cannot use portable electronic devices, ipads, smartphones onboard airplanes. sources tell the "new york times" the faa is under heavy pressure to allow people to use reading devices on planes or at least to give a bona fide scientific explanation why they cannot. a group representing various sides of the debate have been studying the topic. everybody from amazon to boeing to the association of flight attendants. senator claire mccaskill of missouri says she's frustrated the faa has not relaxed rules on devices. she plans on introducing legislation to hold the aviation administration accountable. she told the times, quote, it's okay to have ipads in the cockpit, okay for flight attendants and they are not in a panic, yet it's not okay for the

traveling public. a flying copy of war and peace is more dangerous than a kindle. there's been argument about whether they fear with communications, whether they interfere with radar in some way. >> i leave them on. just to -- oh, yeah. >> that's so nicole. >> it bothers me. because it's a lie. they don't anything to mess up anything. >> this started a long time ago. "time" magazine started writing about it. there was one person there, i remember, i was back at "time," saying what about that static? and nobody knew so they put in these rules. and you're right, now that you can look at it, there's not a problem here. >> think about the opposite, though, what if there were. what if our planes were that fragile after 9/11, do you think anybody would've flown? it's ridiculous. >> i think it's a particular problem because the type of rules are cruel. the taking off the shoes whatever. and it's hard to ever be the person who says, you know, let's

scale them back. >> and you know where you can use devices as you've pointed out, air force one. there are some communications. >> air force one is magnificent. all presidents agree on that. but the best thing is you don't have to sit down during takeoff and landing and e-mail away. >> that's right. >> i'm against unsensible rules, can we really not stay off our kindles for ten minutes on takeoff? >> alec baldwin can't. >> if there's a reason, absolutely, but not, why am i turning it off? >> the only rule they should employ is as soon as the plane lands, you are forbidden from taking out your cell phones, we just landed, i'm here. >> the loud long conversation. >> that's the thing you don't want cell phone in flights. >> oh, absolutely. totally agree with that. plane should be a quiet car. italy's highest criminal court has overturned amanda knox' acquittal for the murder of her british roommate after spending four years in prison for the crime, knox was

released, you'll remember in 2011 after investigators challenged forensic evidence used during the original trial. under italian law, authorities cannot force knox to return for a new trial and her lawyer says she has no plans to do so. knox responded to the decision by the italian court releasing a statement saying in part it was painful to receive the news that the italian supreme court decided to send my case back for revision when the prosecution's theory of my involvement in meredith's murder has repeatedly been revealed to be completely unfounded and unfair. mark haleprin, your take? >> my take is i usually have like instant instincts about whether someone's guilty or innocence. the one thing i found fascinating, i really have no idea. and i've examined the evidence like quincy. >> really? >> why? >> why? because i find it fascinating case. >> i do too. >> and the question about guilt or innocence. >> but the prosecutor is a known

swindler of facts and evidence. i think she's innocent. >> are you doubting the s segecity? >> enough about this. >> they basically threw out all the material evidence against her. >> she'll be found not guilty again. >> she's not going back for a second trial. >> no. >> no way. >> she'll never leave the country. >> she won't be there. >> good for italy, classes up their image, seriousness. >> walter isaacson wants to know what the hell's happening right now? >> walter, what's your nickname? >> -- the two of you to have opinions on this case. >> what's her nickname? >> i have no idea. >> good man. >> come on. foxy knoxy. >> joe klein from the bleachers. >> what is it? >> foxy knoxy. >> that's her nickname? >> well, i changed my opinion on guilt and innocence. >> walter isaacson, thanks so much for being with us. >> i sent the check. up next, another casualty of

america's long wars, the backlog many service members face applying for disability benefits. we'll shine a light on it with joe klein and the founder efou.

no veteran should have to wait for claims. if there's anybody impatient here, i am that individual and we're pushing hard. we have put in place a robust plan to end the backlog in 2015. that's been our commitment. and we have today an automation tool that we didn't have two years ago. and it is called the veterans benefit management system. fielded to 20 of our regional offices.

we have an inventory of about 875,000, you know we're taking care of business. >> that was the secretary of veterans affairs on his plans to improve the enormous backlog veterans face when filing for disability benefits. joining us now, ceo and founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, paul rieckhoff, also joe klein who responded to that interview in his latest piece writing in part, candy crowley did her best pressing shinseki on the disability claims and offered the standard v.a. stone wall. but did not ask the crucial question. why aren't the claims processed according to severity? why should an army ranger who suffered a 100% traumatic brain injury three years ago still be waiting for his disability check? why should that ranger have to

wait behind that vietnam veteran waiting for a third time claim to get his disability raised from 50% to 60%? i don't begrudge vietnam vets the right to have their claims reevaluated, but i'm sure if you asked the mistreated heroes if they thought those who suffered more severe injuries should go to the front of the line, they would say yes, absolutely a no brainer. great to have you here. >> good to be here. >> paul, let me start with you because you at the iava have been all over this. explain the extent of the problem first. we know there are about 900,000 processed claims. that number's only going to go up. the striking numbers are how long some of our veterans are waiting to get those claims processed. >> right, so over about 600,000 of them are what's called backlog. meaning longer than 125 days. let me break it down for you in numerical terms. the overall backlog is increased by 2,000% since president obama took office. so it's skyrocketed. but in local cities and urban areas, much worse. in new york city, around 600

days, los angeles, 600 days, reno, nevada, 600 days. veterans coming home filing their first-time claim, you've come back from iraq and afghanistan, you're going to wait 500 to 600 days. that's the bottom line here. v.a.'s pushing this, they're not seeing it. the families and their lives are really stuck in limbo until that happens. >> are you surprised and or disappointed by the appointment? some people myself included that this is a really positive step. >> that's disappointing for everyone who thinks about this issue because the guy hasn't been around. that candy crowley interview was the first one, you know. when a u.s. soldier kills 16 people, civilians allegedly in afghanistan, the next day in the united states is the worst day of the year for every veteran who is looking for a job or has

to go in for a job interview. and what you need then is an activist v.a. secretary out there saying the vast majority of our kids coming home have tremendous skills, are really hard workers, would make great employees. he hasn't been that advocate for this generation. my feeling is this disability claim's backlog is a symbolic issue. first of all, we should distinguish that if you are an iraq or afghanistan veteran and you have a medical problem right now. if you are suffering from post traumatic stress, you can go to a hospital and get treated immediately or wait -- >> schedule an appointment. >> schedule an appointment. >> doesn't mean you'll be seen immediately. >> yes. >> but disability seems to me to be a no-brainer. i mean, and the question is why haven't they been able to straighten out this simple problem? why haven't they been able to

straighten out the problem of moving medical records from the department of defense to the v.a.? it just seems that this is, you know, a back water for this administration. >> a lot of people will be shocked to hear these numbers. we made an agreement with these guys when we asked them to fight for us that we would take care of them and their families on their return. 681-day wait if you live in reno, nevada, that's unacceptable. they put in a very expensive computer system. why is it so slow? what's the reason behind this? >> we don't know. we're looking from the outside, right? it's like looking at a broken down car on the side of the road and saying what's wrong with the engine. they got more technology, they needed more people, they got more people. everything they've asked for congress and the veterans service organizations have given

them. but the numbers continue to go up. they've got to share records between the departments, they launched a program that was going to create one electronic record, spent 1/2 billion dollars and scrapped it. we need the president to step in, make this a priority and end the backlog. everybody agrees it's gone on long enough, but it's still not getting better. we've got to focus on -- and nobody thinks the end of 2015 is acceptable either. what do veterans do in the next year and a half. >> it's become this magic number for shinseki he's going to cure veterans homelessness by 2013, as well. the rapture is going to come in 2015. this is five years later now. can you honestly say things are gotten better for iraq and afghanistan veterans?

>> no. and it's ten years after iraq started. this is not putting a man on mars. this is fixing a braux where 97% of the claims are on the table. over 10,000 died last year waiting for their claims to be processed. all generations, not just iraq, gulf war, vietnam veterans. did they not know the war was going to end? there was a fail your of planning. are you meeting the needs of the individual veterans under huge financial stress who are trying to get jobs, who have families, that's what this is about. >> that's a key point, the one you just referenced. there's no longer a draft. this army, this marine corps is older. many more are married, have children. many more have been divorced. many more have suffered tbi than ever before. >> many have gone for three and four deployments. >> yeah. >> the claims are complicated. we're coming home with more

injuries, injuries we've never seen before. another issue that's really underreported is how women are being served. i think we've got to go back to the individuals. you know, these folks who are struggling to get by, just to go back to school, to do the right things, they overcome the stigma, go to the v.a., and then the paperwork doesn't catch up. this has a huge cost. we have a friend joe heard about from the veterans community who took his own life two years ago. his claim was approved a couple weeks after he died. that's ridiculous. >> talk about what happens in the -- >> we need the urgency behind this issue. >> what happens during that wait? are you going back and checking? are you, you know, you talk about a 600 day wait. if you knew that was the wait, you could do some planning around that. but i imagine it's not like that. you're going back, asking how excruciating is it? >> if you had some predictability about when it was going to happen. now you're stuck in limbo. we have a guy in our office who filed h ed his claim 65 days ag

that's average, what about the people waiting 1,000 days. i've been hearing all week on twitter about people waiting 1,000 days, 1,200 days. >> i talked to a woman whose son was 100% disability, marine, came out of helmand and he was waiting for more than two years. and at one point they found out the v.a. in cleveland had lost his paperwork. i mean only because she kept on pressing the. i bump into people like this all over the country who can't do this. >> and there's bipartisan support, right? both parties agree this is a problem. we met with the chairman of the senate committee and house committee. they're both laser focused on this, but we need the president to act. call the white house, call your congressman, call your senator and tell them and the v.a. backlog. we need movement. >> we're grateful you're taking up the cause. i think the minute people hear the numbers, the average wait time 273 days, and that's a low number considering some of the

others you've talked about, up to 1,000 days to wait for a right that was promised to them when they put on the uniform. great work. as you said, keep the pressure on. joe, stay with us if you can, we'll be right back. ♪ [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ]

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coming up next, the supreme court takes up marriage

equality, hearing arguments today in the first of two pivotal cases this week. will the court's decision mirror the swiftly changing public opinion? we'll break down all the potential outcomes next on "morning joe." we're here! we're going to the park! [ gina ] oh hey, dan! i really like your new jetta! and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right? yeah... yeah... i know what you've heard -- iihs top safety pick for $159 a month -- but, i wish it was more dangerous, like a monster truck or dune buggy! you can't have the same car as me! [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. let's get a jetta. [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today.

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good morning, it's 8:00 here on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. as you wake up out west. this is a live look at new york city, back with us onset, mike barnicle, nicole wallace, wes moore and steve schmidt. a big day at the supreme court.

set to hear arguments this morning on proposition 8, the law banning same-sex marriage in california. it's anyone's guess which way the justices will rule. they have a long list of options as they hear the arguments. first, prop 8 could be upheld leaving gay couples without the right to marry in california and leaving other states laws untouched. things, though, more complicated if prop 8 is struck down. a broad ruling would allow same-sex marriage in california and also apply to similar state laws across the country. a middle of the road option known as a nine-state solution would apply to states that allow only civil unions. it would not affect marriage bans in other states and a narrow ruling would allow gay marriage in california only. but the justices if you follow me here could also decide that sponsors of prop 8 don't have the proper standing to represent california in the case. that potentially could allow a lower court decision declaring prop 8 unconstitutional to remain in place. recent pew poll shows a reversal on the topic of same-sex marriage mostly because of younger americans.

in 2003, americans overwhelmingly opposed same-sex marriage. the margin there 58%, 33%. flash forward ten years or so, and now more americans support it at 49%, 48%. younger americans have shown a 19% support in the last decade. several high-profile politicians have changed or reversed their positions on gay marriage. the latest democratic senator mark warner of virginia who says his views have evolved. that echoes language used by president obama when he changed his position. warner joins former secretary of state hillary clinton, senator rob portman and claire mccaskill who have all made similar announcements just this month. steve, i'll start with you. you've had a lot of experience in the state of california. as you watch this play out this week and we hear about the case in june, how do you see it playing out? >> one of the things this issue has progressed so rapidly in the country as a whole. if we had a ballot initiative in

california again like we had in 2008, i have no doubt in my mind in a presidential election year it would pass and gay marriage would be legal. the issue is moving so quickly. see that this week with so many democratic senators coming out. and i think california like other places in the country people's opinions on this issue have just changed at a lightning pace. >> wes moore, where are we on this issue now? >> well, i think we're seeing things change at a lightning pace and a much more strategic approach as to how exactly we can sway public opinion. because the fact is, the court is not going to make this decision in a bubble. and that is something that is going to be despite making this on completely legal basis, this is in the back of their mind seeing where the country's going. it reminds me of -- i was speaking to a friend of mine, he was at harvard law school how there was -- and this was back in the 1960s, but in harvard law school in the 1960s, he used to have a teacher that had call on women tuesdays where basically the teacher would only call on women in class on tuesdays. and he said he remembers thinking about it now and how much things have changed since

that point, since call on women tuesdays at harvard law school. and he says, you know, the thing that gets me most about it wasn't the fact this teacher, this guy would simply call on women tuesdays, because felt tuesdays was the only day they could contribute to the conversation. he says the thing that gets me most is we all said nothing and allowed him to do it. and this type of tide is something that supreme court cannot ignore. the fact that you're watching this happen state by state, jurisdiction by jurisdiction and public opinion change so swiftly on this that i think we're going to see some very interesting, i think, probably rapid movements that will align the legal precedents around this, as well. >> steve mentioned senator mark warner of virginia announcing his change on this yesterday or couple of days ago. how does the republican party navigate the waters that wes just alluded to?

>> look, there were a lot of alarming things that happened at cpac. the one happy thing was that they went around trying to find young conservatives who were against gay marriage and they couldn't find any. i mean, even the youngest, most devoted conservatives see this as an equal rights issue. >> as well as an inevitability. >> it's less about that when i think you're a young activist. you believe you can change the world. these young activists -- we're going to be saved by the generation coming out behind us on a lot of fronts. because they just don't see the world in this divided way that all of our politics have become hardened. the other thing is, evangelicals now, a majority of evangelical christians younger than 33 support marriage equality. so there is no more fracture in this country along the typical partisan divides. now, i think as a republican party, tolerance in both

directions is important. we as a party have to understand there are people with different opinions on this and certainly hope for them to continue to evolve. but i think that you can even stage a debate on this issue if you want to have two people on the stage in their 30s. just not in disagreement about marriage equality. >> part of the question, steve, is it the role and will it be the role of the supreme court to push this along? or do you let it happen organically? do you let it happen politically state by state? >> it's going to be an interesting question, interesting to watch it fold out. but when you talk about civil rights issues, there's always that strain that says, wait, this will happen, this will unfold on its own time. but it seems to me we've reached the tipping point on the issue. the supreme court now has the ball on this. and i think the supreme court and the chief justice are going to recognize that the historical importance of this moment of this decision, which bring equality to so many millions of

americans. and i think increasingly, the country will demand and republicans will demand that gays and lesbians be treated equally in this country. and they have the same rights and franchises everybody else does. >> you know, wes, what's going to be kind of interesting is to watch or listen in regard to law school professor in 1960s, only call on women on tuesdays. the language of justice scalia today to see how he reacts in discussing this case with lawyers because he has been ridiculously off course and a couple of times rhetorically in this case. >> and i think what's interesting too, you'll see a lot of parallels and you can draw a lot of parallels from two things. one is the civil rights argument, which i think is an important argument, analogy in this. but then also the military and the release of the don't ask, don't tell policy. because part of the challenge that was being made for around the -- by the end of don't ask, don't tell was how was this going to affect efficiency,

military readiness? and i think every independent report that's come out, not only what's happened thus far, but beforehand says this is not going to impact readiness at all. anything that happens within terms of military operations. . all the arguments against it continue to be whittled away. and on the civil rights piece and why it's so important to make that connection, that attachment, part of the reason it was shot down before was because of things like the black church who came out and said, listen, we are -- we understand civil rights, but this is a step too far. if you look at states that have pulled this off. whether it be new york or maryland. they've done a very targeted effort on things like the black church, minority groups because they're saying this is a civil rights issue, as well. meanwhile there is news overseas where the military is transferring a majority of

prisons to the afghan government. hamid karzai praised the handover as a positive step during his meeting with john kerry. nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell is traveling with secretary kerry. >> all right. >> reporter: john kerry's trip to afghanistan was all about damage control. defusing tensions with the country's erratic president hamid karzai. two weeks ago, karzai infuriated the president and congress suggesting that the u.s. had colluded with the taliban on car bomb attacks. he said he was misunderstood. >> do you standby your statement, your recent statement that the united states is conspireing with the taliban on recent terror attacks? >> i never used the word collusion between the taliban and the u.s. and those were not my words, those were words picked up by the media. >> we're on the same page, i

don't think there's any disagreement between us and i'm very, very comfortable with the president's explanation. >> it wasn't kerry's first mission to deal with a karzai problem. as a senator in 2009, he spent four days persuading karzai to hold a runoff election after vote fraud. just before kerry landed, the u.s. turned over control of the prison at bagram air base. kerry's kid glove treatment of karzai is in sharp contrast to kerry's visit to iraq where he confronted prime minister maliki for helping iran rearm the assad regime in syria. kerry has been on a diplomatic marathon. israel, jordan, iraq, back to jordan for a secret dinner with pakistan's powerful army chief of staff. >> we'll talk about hamid karzai in that minute. but what's the significance of that transfer to the afghan government? >> it's significant and for a couple different reasons. one is that it shows the acceleration of the redeployment of troops is going to happen

quickly because a lot of troops were actually there to maintain a lot of the prison facilities, the bases at bagram, the most built out facilities that we have inside of afghanistan. it shows a level of seriousness about how fast this redeployment is going to happen. it really tries to establish a sense of nationalistic identity within afghanistan. because part of the challenge of president karzai ever since he's been the president there is that he's been not much more than the mayor of kabul. his fear and influence has not stretched out into particularly the rural areas where you have heavy influences of taliban and other type of, you know, resistance. the united states is saying this is what you asked for, what you want. therefore, we're placing the ball into your hands and seeing what you can do with it. what i find interesting, you talk about president karzai. the only thing i find more striking about president karzai, no the even his comments is how many times he's misunderstood

about comments he's made. >> you know what is amazing to me is the lack of ability on our part, on this country's part, on our leadership's part to frame this up in terms of history. through no fault of secretary kerry's, that could have been secretary john kerry in a reincarnation talking to president zm in south vietnam in 1970. the same language, the same tactics, the same objective. you know, this is your country, we're trying to hand it over to you, trying to get out and we don't know how to get out. >> it would have been good if some of our policy makers over the last decade about afghanistan. look, he is an unreliable partner, erratic doesn't again to describe it. it's time for the united states to come home from afghanistan. we will be in an asymmetrical war against terrorists, al qaeda, affiliates, as that organization grows.

the notion after year 12, 13, 14, 15, going forward, we're going to be able to impose a westernized liberalized decent democracy on this country is fantastical. it will never happen. our military has served valiantly, fantastically, they have done everything that has been asked of them or more. but now it is time for the policy leaders in this country to begin to bring our troops home from this mission, which has no definition. we have no reliable partner, and we have an inability to shape this country to the decent outcome that we had all hoped for earlier in this decade. >> year 12. >> i think what's most striking is the continuity between the obama administration's approach to afghanistan and the bush

administration's approach to afghanistan. this is a country with bad options and worse options. while karzai's been an unreliable partner, he's been the best of options. there's been no fast changes, this doesn't speak to any weaknesses in american foreign policy, it speaks to the difficulty of the country and speaks to a place where we didn't have a lot of good options. so i think there's something reassuring about the fact that two presidents from, you know, very different political persuasions basically adhered to an identical foreign policy and relied on the same unreliable partner in karzai. that could have been secretary rice, secretary clinton, it was secretary kerry in this case. but the goals have remained american goals and that was to make this place better than the evil horrible place it was when 9/11 was planned. it's fine to say 12-year war and it's terrible never should have been there, but i'm not sure we had any good choices. and affirmed by the fact that two presidents of different political persuasions did the exact same thing.

>> if afghanistan were sandwiched in between brazil and argentina, nobody would care. it's the region that finds itself in. the fact that the neighbors are iran and pakistan is why. >> and the attacks of 9/11 were planned. so we saw the consequences of leaving it to the taliban and al qaeda. still ahead on "morning joe," nbc chief news medical editor dr. nancy snyderman will join us on the science of sleep. here's a hint, sleep is important. plus, will california's ban on same sex marriage hold up in the supreme court? the state's attorney general kamala harris joins us to preview the historic arguments. bill karins has a look at the forecast. >> i've got unbelievable news for you, willie. in north georgia they've had snow flurries and snow showers. they're delaying schools in some cases, just because of the snow flurry. there's concern with the roads. that's how cold it is this morning. here's atlanta. even some snow showers just to the north of atlanta. that's how cold, very, very rare

to get snow this far into the deep south this time of year. got some good snows going in the mountains, the smokeys of north carolina and tennessee and further to the north. in west virginia and ohio, southern ohio's cold enough for some of that to stick. i know just about all of us are pretty much done with this and i think this is pretty much the peak. this is the snow cover across the country. the blue north wards is where there's snow on the ground. half the country. this time last year, 7% of the country had snow on the grounds and that was mostly the mountains in the west. what a difference this march has been since last march. it's 33 in atlanta, 34 in dallas. this is going to be the coldest weather map i'm going to show you probably until the end of november or maybe even december. from here on out, we finally begin to turn the tide and begin to watch things warming up. it's not going to get warm in a hurry, but at least we'll head in the right direction. today with sunshine, it will warm up in the deep south, but 49 in atlanta, imagine, a lot of people spent that money on spring break with kids and

families this week, in the 60s down there in florida. colder than they were in much of january. the northern half of the country is still chilly too. but as i mentioned, today's the bottom of the barrel. spring will slowly arrive from here on out. st. louis, you had a foot of snow two days ago, i'm promising you 60 degrees on easter sunday. that's more like it.

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supreme court, washington, d.c., big case today.

welcome back to "morning joe." mark haleprin and joe klein back at the table joining us from capitol hill. california's attorney general kamala harris. glad to have you here with us today. >> good morning. >> you filed a friend of the court brief with the supreme court on prop 8. give us the filing. >> well, the gist of it is a legal procedural issue which is the issue of standing and essentially we are arguing that mr. hollingsworth who has said prop 8 is unconstitutional. we're saying he does not have standing to be before the united states supreme court since article 3 of the constitution requires that if you go before the supreme court, you've got to have something at stake. and he has nothing at stake. because, of course, allowing ms. perry marry her partner of 16 years is not going to harm him in any real way.

>> not that long ago, your state voted to make gay marriage illegal. what would you say to the millions and millions of californians who don't want the law of the land to be the same-sex marriages legal in california. what would you say to that? >> first of all, that was five years ago that prop 8 was voted by 52% of californians. today and i think that's mark who asked the question, today 61% of californians are in favor of same-sex marriage and the bottom line is that this is about a fundamental right. since the 1880s, the united states supreme court 14 times has described marriage as a fundamental right. and so this really is about notions of fundamental freedom and equality and liberty. and for that reason, prop 8 should not be upheld because it is clearly unconstitutional. >> joe klein. >> i'd like to ask you a political question. out there in california, how were republicans feeling about

this? would they rather see this whole case go away or do you think that the republican party base in california still wants to argue against gay marriage? >> well, i look at the fact that there are over 100 national leaders from the republican party who are in favor of same-sex marriage. and i think that we're arriving at a point on this issue where it is not and should not be considered a partisan issue. it really fundamentally is about the constitution of the united states and the principles that were important in the founding of our country, which is the protection that we should all receive as equals under the law. >> nicole wallace. >> hi, this is nicole wallace. and you and i are on the same side of this debate. i have a question for you about how important you think this opportunity has been to argue a conservative legal justification for marriage equality to the overall movement. do you think it renders the outcome less relevant now that we've had this window and this opportunity to speak directly to

big numbers of the public about this constitutional legal conservative argument? >> well, i think history can help us answer that question. and if you look at, for example, loving versus virginia decided in 1967, we know that was happening at the same time as the movement in the streets was happening around the need for equality as it relates to the issue of race in our country. and i think there is a role that is a legitimate role that is part of the ground movement, part of the grass roots or net roots movement if you want to call it that. but fundamentally, when we are talking about issues that go to the heart of the principles of our constitution around equal protection, i think that the court is the right place for this to happen and it will happen consecutively with what is happening in terms of the president of the united states, former president of the united states, former secretary of state and others coming forward and acknowledging that same-sex

marriage is something that they support. >> general harris, the law is your business, it's your life, it's your profession. >> yep. >> do you have things internally in your mind that go through your mind like scouting reports on judges? if so, can you give us a scouting report on the supreme court? how do you think they're going to look at this with the various justices? >> well, i don't want to speculate, but i -- but you know, and in the few short months in june, we'll know exactly how they were thinking. and i think perhaps their questions will be some indication. through the process, there's an opportunity for states like california and others to submit a brief friend of the court briefs. so that the justices can take into consideration the impact as interpreted by parties and those who are interested in the outcome. i think that the justices ultimately are going to make decisions, hopefully based on

and consistent with their interpretation of the constitution on the issue of marriage. and again, since the 1880s, they have described marriage as a fundamental right. and when that right then is being taken away from a specific group, i believe they should feel compelled to decide that it is unconstitutional and should not be upheld. >> the great attorney general from the golden state of california, kamala harris. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. great to be with you. >> joe klein, we appreciate your being here and even though you told me you're taking most of the rest of the year off. >> isn't it weird that california that is always the advance guard is now the rear guard in this? i mean, how quickly has this issue changed? five years, my god, i haven't seen anything like it. >> yeah, we were talking about it earlier. the pace of change has been mind boggling. >> i think it cuts against you in ways in both parties to be on the -- against marriage

equality. people have worried about the politics of coming out for marriage equality. i think the politics, it's changing so quickly, the politics are indiscernible. >> it's just mystifying that anybody would be opposed to it. >> right. well, 80% of young people are for equality. >> you know, it's like -- >> joe, thanks, you can go. go ahead. coming up, dr. nancy snyderman on how skipping sleep can make you pack on the pounds. i've clearly been awake for a long time. "morning joe" is back in a moment. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age?

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how much sleep do you need at night? >> generally about seven to eight hours of sleep. the idea is you need one hour of sleep for every two hours you're awake. some people can get by with less. >> what happens if you get five to six hours of sleep a night that i would guess most of us around the set have done for five to six years now. >> you basically start to act like you're drunk. >> that explains everything, it's not my fault. not my fault. >> weird. >> that explains a lot. >> i know. >> the lack of sleep plus the

drugs, that's what this is all about. >> yeah. >> we appear drunk? really? >> only on certain days. >> punchdrunk stupid. >> well, that has nothing to do with lack of sleep, though. that's who we are. turns out there's an excuse for all of our behavior on this set. that was part of our conversation with david randall author of the book "dream land," and here with us now, nbc chief medical editor dr. nancy snyderman. >> interesting, a studies and how we learn. i don't know if you guys were the same way in college, if i studied up until the time of like a big, big, big test and i really crammed my brain and then went to bed, i retained it much better than if i pulled an all-nighter. and now researchers have been looking at why babies sleep so much and why, frankly, sleep is necessary to repair the human body and learn. and we learn a lot during this

sort of slow wave time of our sleep. >> is there a specific number of hours that we should get? >> everybody thinks -- everybody bandies around seven to eight hours, but the reality is some people are less. bill clinton notoriously slept less. but i said this to him, his heart took a hit. we'll never know if his lack of sleep, you know, helped cause some of his heart disease. kobe bryant sleeps 12 to 13 hours a day. and now this big area of looking at elite athletes. sleep more than average people. and a lot of it is because they know that their bodies are restored and there's pretty good evidence now that if you take athletes and you put them through -- in just a gazillion more drills, they don't get better. you let them rest and sleep, they get better. >> what's the deal in this study you alluded to, i think? if you don't get a lot of sleep,

you get really fat. >> so, when you and i don't sleep, we crave two things. good thing mika's not here, we crave fat and we crave carbs and sugar goes along with it. >> and a third. >> oh, you want sex, is that it, barnicle? >> no, he's tired. >> so the barnicle way is have sex, fall asleep. most people have to read a magazine. >> while having sex. >> lucky her. >> we've taken this right off the road. >> we've finally gotten the golden girls spinoff. >> we do know that if you don't get enough sleep, you crave all the wrong foods because your body's under stress and so your cortisol levels go up, and you crave those foods that are going to give you extra energy.

and those are the carbs and the fats. >> not getting enough sleep doesn't automatically make you fat. >> it does automatically make you fat. >> if you're tired and disciplined enough not to then -- >> then you're miserable all the way around. >> go take a run instead of eating a donut. >> the reality is, if you are sleep deprived, you will put on as much as 2 1/2 pounds a week. >> even if you don't turn to those -- >> yes. >> a week? >> a week. the reality is, there has to be a check and balance. you can go a couple of nights with marginal sleep, but then you've got to autocorrect. you cannot go perpetually without enough sleep or you will put on weight. it is biologically hard wired to make sure your body will seek out things you don't need. sleep has become the new sex. we laugh about it, but nobody's getting enough of it. we don't get enough. five to six hours for people like us with babies at home and

active schedules. it's not enough. and you, old man, you're going to need more and more -- >> that's hurtful. doctor, doctor. that's very hurtful. >> you know. >> what about when you have little kids or especially? >> no, i hired a sleep consultant because we went 14 months without sleeping. >> that's a white girl problem. >> well, we were desperate, and they wrote a book and we read a book and tried it on our own. but we were afraid of letting the baby cry. but after 14 months of not sleeping, i was afraid to drive. my husband was stumbling around. afraid he was going to wander -- >> what did they say to you about the baby? >> to let him cry. he cried for nine minutes and slept for 13 hours as he has every night since they left. yes, i hired a sleep consultant. guilty, guilty, guilty. >> and did you need that consultant once? >> yes, only came once and i needed it. >> there's a whole new world out

there. >> great business. >> true story, ted williams never used to sleep after 7:00 at night, and he'd never eat after 7:00 at night because he felt it interfered with body rhythms and putting on excess weight. >> i don't because i think that at some point your brain has to say the kitchen is closed and buy logically it's time to sort of wind down and do other things. i don't do that. i think at some point the quality of food you put in your mouth matters and calories in, calories out matter. oprah winfrey has subscribed to that for a long time that after 7:00 at night, don't eat, it changes your rhythm. i think just the discipline of -- there are other things to do. >> invited to a big banquet where you're doctor of the year. got to eat first? >> don't you find when you go out at night and eat too late, it's hard to sleep? the older you get, there comes a point where late night dinners are no longer fun. >> what is this age thing you

keep bringing up? older and -- what are you doing? >> she has to embrace it. you better face it. >> you want to meet me at 7:15 tonight? >> i'll meet you now. >> 6:30, 7:15's a little late for me. >> okay. >> blue plate special. >> you were very hurtful today. >> she doesn't want any gadgets in your bedroom either, she says. >> oh, yeah, i saw that. i didn't even go there. sleep hygiene tips. >> it's a family show. >> go to bed, wake up at the same time, make your bed quiet, dark, and relaxing. avoid large meals before bedt e bedtime. and use your bed only for sleeping and remove gadgets from the bedroom. >> what do you use as your alarm clock? >> regular alarm clock? i'm serious. >> i use this. >> that's what i do. my iphone. there are no lights. iphone's the best -- >> but that's a gadget. >> there's no lights. it's the whole idea of lum--

>> your bed is for sleep and sex, no tv. >> or donuts. >> nicole. >> sorry. >> what is going on here? jen, get these people off the set. get them off the set. >> way to go, nicole. >> i'm telling you, there's a spinoff. get this on the digital channel. >> one more thing. we have one more thing for you lucky viewers will look at. when sleep turns -- i'll just keep going. tilda swinton is in a performance art piece where she sleeps for seven hours straight in a glass box. >> i do not get this. how many days has she done it? >> i think she did it one day? >> does that count? >> is she actually sleeping? >> she keeps doing it? >> every night? >> more than one day. >> she's getting her seven

hours, but it's not -- it's not dark or quiet, but of all people it would be tilda swinton. >> she has a cushion, glasses and water jug with her. i'm going to go up and see if she's sleeping. >> i think you should sub in. >> yeah. you came close to insulting me too. >> no, i think you'd be good at that. >> this is horrible. >> barnicle -- >> thanks a lot for showing up today. up next -- facebook will attack me. the facebook.

do we have a mower? no. a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget we're not ready for spring. well lets get you ready. very nice. you see the various colors. we got workshops every saturday. yes, maybe a little bit over here this spring, take on more lawn for less. not bad for our first spring. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. keep your yard your own with your choice, a special buy at just $8.

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they're all gone. maybe i'll get one. [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. you can't have the same car as me, gary! i'm gettin' one. nope! [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a passat. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the ground and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away. ♪ you know, a lot of people think the big news stories today

are the supreme court debate on gay marriage and the big snowstorm that's hitting the midwest. but i checked out local news across the cub, and apparently an even bigger story. >> economic factors may take some spring out of the easter bunny's step this year. >> economic factors may take some spring out of the easter bunny's step this year. >> economic factors may take some spring out of the easter bunny's step. >> economic factors may take some spring out of the easter bunny's step this year. >> economic factors may take some spring out of the easter bunny's step this year. >> economic factors may take the spring out of the step of the easter bunny. >> it's always scary. >> what a coincidence. >> well, as easter approaches, and we look at economic factors, perhaps affecting the easter bunny. we're kidding. mary thompson is with us, cnbc's mary thompson. mary, how is it going?

oh, my -- my -- >> i don't hear her either. >> i don't hear mary. i don't hear mary. >> can you hear me now? >> there we go. >> beautiful. >> all right. how's it going this morning? is that what you want to know? >> do they have easter in cyprus? >> well, now you have me on the spot i'm thinking maybe -- i don't know if they -- what church they belong to. do they belong to greek orthodox church, isn't that different? >> we're going to let them have easter over there. >> the question is, do they have an easter bunny? i think that's an american thing. >> that's true, that's true. >> originally thai, actually. >> really? >> why do you know that? >> no, i'm kidding. >> should we talk about how cyprus is -- >> yeah. >> why don't we talk about that instead. you know, right now the futures are looking a little bit better this morning and the good news is, of course, cyprus will be staying in the eurozone and had that euro bailout.

they still stay closed until thursday and two of the big banks are being shut down. now yesterday, of course, the u.s. markets, he said the cyprus bailout could be a temporary one with private investors and dp depositors. that caused the u.s. market to take a hit. the dow fell on those comments. then recovered closing down just about 64 points. the nasdaq and the s&p also finishing lower today. different story, they're pointing to a higher open. a lot of data out this morning including durable goods for the month of february. they were just released, better than expected at 5.7%. also have new home sales, home prices and consumer confidence on tap. >> cnbc's mary thompson. thank you very much, mary, we appreciate it. putting up with us, we appreciate it, as well. up next, a look at the morning papers. we'll be right back.

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a major break with tradition, the vatican has announced the mass on holy thursday will be held in a chapel of a juvenile attention facility. and during the ceremony pope

francis will wash the feet of 12 young inmates. >> let me get this straight, i've got to camp out overnight in st. peter's square to catch a glimpse of his holiness meanwhile some hooligan jacks a stereo and he's getting his feet washed by the pope? he's getting a manipopi, i don't get it. your holiness, if you don't want to end up somebody's punk as soon as you get up there, you walk up to the biggest guy in the yard and you just bless him right in the face. oh, my god, mr. president, the robots! oh, my god -- oh, they're jewish robots, they're bringing him a g nosh. i'm going to stop you right there, mr. president. good matzah, that's what's known

as a goi tell, unless that was jammed inside a chipwich, it tastes like the box it came in. you're allowed to say matzah sucks, trust me, that's what netanyahu was thinking. >> man, tough to be colbert and stewart back-to-back. we have a check of the morning papers. how exciting is that? "usa today," hosted at the white house, the old family dining room. it's the fifth time the obamas have celebrated the holiday at the white house. in israel last week, the president touched on one of the central themes of passover. the struggle for freedom in one's own land. >> one of the stories of the day, "new york times," 17-year-old computer wiz from britain sold a news-reading app to yahoo for as much as $30

million. the program is called sumly, it condenses news stories into easy to read stories for mobile devices. other early investors in the app include ashton kutcher and rupert murdoch's wife wendy. >> i've been doing that for 30 years and this kid gets $30 million. >> he found a brilliant way to do it. >> i've been condensing longer storm news stories verbally for children, adults, everybody around the table for years. so have you. >> that was my job the first few campaigns i worked on. scientists have discovered core math skills determined as early as first grade stick with individuals throughout their lifetime. the study says bringing a strong numbers system knowledge early on is the key to success. about 1 in 5 adults in the u.s. lack the math competence of a child in middle school and i am one of them. joker joker and the triple. the identity of the newest power ball winner no longer a mystery.

came forward yesterday claimed his $338 million prize. he's a father of five, owns a bodega where he bought the winning ticket. hi told reporters his first priority will be to help his family. >> he's a courageous man publicly identifying himself with that amount of money. march madness is alive and well in the ft. myers campus of florida, gulf coast university, the sweet sixteen bound basketball team returned to campus yesterday and received a heroes welcome, student body. the campus bookstore has run out of shirts and sales of team apparel are up 1,000% from last year. no surprise there. that's a terrific story. up next, what if anything did we learn today? [ man ] i got this citi thankyou card and started

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these are sandra's "homemade"